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Post by Fool Coyote on May 15, 2008 7:31:18 GMT -5
Firstly, I know, I don't really like the term "vs." in these sorts of discussions, but as I delve further into traditionalism and reconstruction, I seem to be finding that while traditionalism feels that Gaelic culture is in tact (though not exactly the same form as our Gaelic ancestors would have known), with it's traditions being handed down from ancient times in the form of a kind of lineage, I suppose, Reconstructionists, feel differently.
Reconstruction, feels that because the traditions of Pagan times are in fact, "evolved" or watered down as some might feel that the old Pagan ways need to be reconstructed as truthfully to the past as possible. Does anyone here have thoughts on this matter?
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Post by diarmuid on May 15, 2008 14:20:46 GMT -5
Oh geez...
Well...as a recon, I do feel that we need to reconstruct the polytheistic ways of ancient Gaelic cultures. There is no truly intact tradition of polytheism within the Gaelic cultures and has lived on only as superstition and folk tradition, but even then it is a far cry from the ancient religions. Polytheistic traditions DO need to be reconstructed, though I also see the importance of living and experiencing the Gaelic culture.
I don't get it all though...the arguments are stupid and one should not be attacking another. In fact, I think they compliment each other.
Question...is traditionalism religious??? In my understanding, recons are more focused on reconstructing the religious aspects, not about changing the culture there now....
ACH!!! IT IS ALL SO CONFUSING!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Fool Coyote on May 18, 2008 14:52:28 GMT -5
Oh geez... Well...as a recon, I do feel that we need to reconstruct the polytheistic ways of ancient Gaelic cultures. There is no truly intact tradition of polytheism within the Gaelic cultures and has lived on only as superstition and folk tradition, but even then it is a far cry from the ancient religions. Polytheistic traditions DO need to be reconstructed, though I also see the importance of living and experiencing the Gaelic culture. I don't get it all though...the arguments are stupid and one should not be attacking another. In fact, I think they compliment each other. Question...is traditionalism religious??? In my understanding, recons are more focused on reconstructing the religious aspects, not about changing the culture there now.... ACH!!! IT IS ALL SO CONFUSING!!!!!!!!!! LOL, yeah, it can get that way. Traditionalism in and of it's self isn't necessarily religious, it is more cultural, specific to Irish culture, Scottish culture, Welsh culture etc. etc. While reconstruction is generally a Pagan path, one can be Christian or Pagan and still up hold cultural tradition. Traditionalists generally feel that their culture is in tact, though changed over the centuries. While there is some weight to that argument, especially in Ireland, and there are definitely ties to the Pagan past, there does come a point IMHO when in order to more fully understand the practices, and philosophies of our Gaelic ancestors reconstruction is also an important part of the mix. What jabs my craw, is this argument that Reconstructionists are "watering down" the facts. In most cases those making this argument don't seem to understand what reconstruction is, relying on the new age types who call themselves by this name, and not those involved in the movement it's self. As I think you've seen on myspace groups in the past. |
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Post by wallacecymry on May 24, 2008 21:49:35 GMT -5
Well, first of all, the Reconstruction values scientific studies to promote a "correct" resurrection of Celtic Polytheism (Brittish, Gaelic, Gaulish...). And the anthropology is part of it. Anthropology include the living cultures and oral traditions surviving till our days. The Reconstruction and Traditionalism don't need be in conflict. But, there are some points in discussion. Traditionalism values the traditions of the people, Polytheistic or not, Ancient or not, native or not, since the people adopt this tradition. Doesn't matter if violin is a Baltic musical instrument, it's traditionally used playng Irish music, so it's traditionaly Irish. Ironically, Traditionalism excludes (not ever, I know) people from outside this ethnic/cultural heritage; Reconstruction values the Paganism itself, the History, Archaeology, Anthropology. Some modern traditions can be incorporated to Reconstruction, but many can be excluded too.
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Post by Fool Coyote on May 25, 2008 6:59:11 GMT -5
Well, first of all, the Reconstruction values scientific studies to promote a "correct" resurrection of Celtic Polytheism (Brittish, Gaelic, Gaulish...). And the anthropology is part of it. Anthropology include the living cultures and oral traditions surviving till our days. The Reconstruction and Traditionalism don't need be in conflict. But, there are some points in discussion. Traditionalism values the traditions of the people, Polytheistic or not, Ancient or not, native or not, since the people adopt this tradition. Doesn't matter if violin is a Baltic musical instrument, it's traditionally used playng Irish music, so it's traditionaly Irish. Ironically, Traditionalism excludes (not ever, I know) people from outside this ethnic/cultural heritage; Reconstruction values the Paganism itself, the History, Archaeology, Anthropology. Some modern traditions can be incorporated to Reconstruction, but many can be excluded too. Very nicely said, and some very good points. No - traditionalism, and reconstruction don't need to be in conflict, but I do sometimes see their points, especially with many who mistake modern online bardic colleges, as being "Reconstruction". Now don't get me wrong, I'm not down on these colleges like O.B.O.D, Keltria, Druidschool, or any of the others, they are a fine place to start, however they send these "six month Druids" (as a friend of mine used to call them) into the world, they meet traditionalists, and start spouting off about an 8 fold year, and other such things. Voila! Here's what ALL reconstructionists think. |
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